But someone else might be able to answer your questions. The area is full of waterfalls, walks and other tourist attractions so you can break up your off-roading with a wide range of activities, and theres myriad coastal towns and beaches for walking on, but not driving. Leave Mount Somers on Ashburton Gorge Road, then turn right into Hakatere Heron Road (23 km). Sharp rocks. START at the old ticket/ entry booth to the Hotham resort on the Great Alpine Road, 1.5 km on the Harrietville side of the intersection with . Dogsand other pets are not permitted in the park. AboutPressCopyrightContact. I'm in for sure, been wanting to get to that area for a while now but didn't want to go alone either. Spectacular views of the reserves and the surrounding district are offered from both peaks via a public road and car park (Mt Leura) and a walking track (Mt Sugarloaf). Required fields are marked *. Moderate. All this while you squeeze in and out of tiny caves and corridors. Worth checking out if youre chasing a free outing. What you need to know before heading to the mountain. Tho where the track is closed another track forks off from the left and leads into plenty of other tracks . In regards to the starting location, theres no rhyme or reason for starting at the Cook Mills Car Park. Both are threatened by ongoing clearfell logging and bushfires. Mt Sugarloaf through to Freemans waterhole has plenty of tracks from easy to challenging, pick a dry day as the clay gets real slippery when wet. The shortest route there is on little used 4wd tracks that climb through some very pleasant forest. It's an easy walk up Lake Hill - a great place to appreciate the lake and surrounding mountains and the effects of past glaciers. But sometimes youll be laterally steered by zig-zag narrow corridors. Without much practice in rock scrambling, you place yourself in dangerous and vulnerable positions. Not many walkers and only heard some motor bikes. The slight incline is enough for you to work up a sweat. This is such a beautiful place not far from Newcastle and Maitland. But it wont be at such dizzying heights. Once you take the first split in the track left things get a little more interesting. Doing so guarantees that your summit of Sugarloaf Peak in the Cathedral Ranges State Park remains an unforgettable experience. There is no defined trail to begin. We propose adding 355,000 hectares of protected forests to the Central Highlands of Victoria to form the Great Forest National Park, Currently there is only 170,000 hectares of parks and protected areas in the Central Highlands of Victoria. If you book with Tripadvisor, you can cancel up to 24 hours before your tour starts for a full refund. The park's runner-up is Sugarloaf Traverse, which will get you 4,963 ft of elevation gain. There are walking tracks with some amazing lookouts, as well as 4WD tracks that lead to some great little spots to explore.The kids love going bushwalking at Mount Sugarloaf, and being so close, we can make it a regular visit. So by the time you have reached the first genuine walking trail of the day, youd have adequately warmed up and will be ready to hit the ground running! 93% of travellers recommend this experience. at the top of suger loaf turn left take the dirt road and with in 2min your into itcan b done by ya self as long as u have a wintch and if u have a uhf u get 100% coverage as the repter station is on top of suger loaf best of luck, Alot of Fire trails, some fun tracks run off Range Rd which are alot of fun. Looking for a more strenuous hike? This is a new series of 1-100,000 scale maps, all of Victoria is covered by these maps. Rick & Julie could not . Explore one of 3 easy hiking trails in Sugarloaf State Conservation Area that are great for the whole family. In the end disappointed but greatly satisfied because it gave me an excuse to go exploring many of the other side tracks around, Good track plenty of side tracks to explore some rocky ascents mixture of clay mud sand and rocks. Revenue impacts the experiences featured on this page. In turn, making the trail dangerous. The Great Forest National Park is a proposed expansion of protected forests in the Central Highlands, Experience the wonder of the Central Highlands for yourself, Help support making the Great Forest National Park a reality. Lots of seating for a picnic or BBQ but TAKE THE AEROGARD, the mozzies will attack!! The Latest Award-Winning Oztent Swags and More. The park extends a long way east, and the further you go that way the less traffic youll see. Keep a close eye on these to stay on track. Its the adventure of tackling the awesome Wells Cave Track. Help support our work in expressing the conservation needs and compelling opportunities that we could address through the establishment of the Great Forest National Park for Victoria. Getting there:Start the track from Lake Heron car park, 1.7 km along the lake shore, off Hakatere Heron Road. There seems to be fewer trees here than throughout the dense Messmate Track. Admittedly, the gentle ascent of this rocky and uneven track is fairly uninspiring. It is Mt Sugarloaf and it does. keen to see one done up close. You are using an out of date browser. FYI the Cathedral Ranges hike described in this guide is also known as the Sugarloaf Mountain hike, Sugarloaf Peak hike, Sugarloaf Mountain hiking trail, Sugarloaf Peak trail and Sugarloaf Summit trail. As you begin to scramble down the Razorback, your views of the surrounding Cathedral Ranges begin to disappear. There is no sign postage from this point. Site 1 - Mount Sugarloaf Avoca. Share your voice to preserve these regions for generations to come. Of course, we recommend taking the Wells Cave Track to reach Sugarloaf Peak. But you will not regret this small add on. 30km to 100km. You could also start from the Sugarloaf Saddle Carpark and Day Visitor Area or Jawbone Car Park. The national park you need to add to your 4WD bucket list, 8 Swimming holes to cool off in this Summer. Head up past the buildings on the 4WD track on to the top of the terrace. Blowfly road is wet clay in places after rain, effectively 1 way. Joins up to the main trail that runs up the guts of the forest. Eversley Sugarloaf Trk. Its not merely the sensational views from Sugarloaf Peak, in the Cathedral Ranges, that make this trail Victorias best day hike. This park conservation plan is subject to ongoing discussions and approvals with relevant clans and corporations and fully supports and recognises all their cultural rights, control and access. This is such a beautiful place not far from Newcastle and Maitland. The hiking stops and the rock scrambling begins. Complete this quick survey. No promises at this point, but Im almost certain Jen and I will be coming. Before you know it, youll be pleasantly surprised by the scenery on offer. 4WD tracks to Freemans Waterhole. And the reason its the best view of the Newcastle area. As you make your way through the trail, you will begin to catch glimpses of the stunning Cathedral Ranges. Kids enjoyed the cardboard sliding down the hill! But with that comes one welcome sight. Epic views up the top. But youll need to retain your focus, as the hardest rock scrambling is reserved for the final few pushes. Convenient facilities and close parking to the look out walkDefinitely a must see for visitors to Newcastle. If you give yourself the green light, what awaits you is an absolute rip-snorter of a hike and one of the most epic day trips from Melbourne! A stunning view awaits you at the end of Mt Sugarloaf Road that steers your gaze over the forested southern slopes of Kinglake, the agricultural valleys of Arthurs and Chads Creek, and towards the city of Melbourne standing 40km to the south west. If you DON'T agree to these terms, DO NOT JOIN THIS Trip or website. After about 1km on the Tweed Spur Track, youll arrive at the Messmate Track to your right. Explore the area around Lake Heron on these tracks - discover kettle holes, and views of the lake and surrounding mountains. Its one of the more tranquil components of this Cathedral Ranges hike. This track winds its way slightly downhill through more forest landscape. In this guide, well thoroughly review reaching Sugarloaf Peak via the epic Wells Cave Track. Plus, youll start naturally filling with adrenaline to sharpen your focus. The terrain is fairly rocky and the track is quite narrow. But every so often, particularly on the Razorback Track, having the safety net of a GPS-guided map will be helpful. Below is an in-depth recount of reaching Sugarloaf Peak via the Wells Cave Track with the added South Jawbone Peak trail. Even the mountain itself was mined. Great little walk for the Easter weekend! Switch to the dark mode that's kinder on your eyes at night time. After negotiating rock for some time, youll have climbed a great deal before you even realise. It's about one hour north of Brisbane CBD and has a variety of tracks for all skill levels. Sugarloaf/Rockburn Track Located in Mount Aspiring National Park in the Otago region View saved (0) This marked track traverses moraine through beech forest from Lake Sylvan. The Sugarloaf Peak Canyon Track veers to the left, while the Wells Cave Track heads to the right. Return via Killingworth. Once on the top, follow along the front edge of the terrace in a Southerly direction. We are hiking enthusiasts, so you'll find plenty of awesome hiking content. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for all of our latest hiking adventures! This number is based on the percentage of all Tripadvisor reviews for this product that have a bubble rating of 4 or higher. But, under no circumstance is it safe to descend the Wells Cave Track. DISCLAIMER: "4wdtrip.com","Members", "Owners" and "Trip Leaders" (the "Organisers") are not responsible for your safety. Mt Sugarloaf is on the northern side of Woolshed road (which heads out to Eldorado). Because the Farmyard is a few kilometres away from its nearest car park, the Jawbone Car Park, your effort to set up camp here will be rewarded with a quieter and more peaceful campground. Mount Sugarloaf, Wallsend: Address, Mount Sugarloaf Reviews: 4/5. Anne at the Mt Duckworth campsite, Cape to Cape Track, Margaret River. This trail meanders through the forest, winding along the calming flow of the Jawbone Creek. On top of that, well talk about trail alternatives, how to get there, safety and camping options at Cathedral Range State Park. Margaret River 4WD Tracks, 269km SW There's a heap of 4WD tracks around Margaret River that go to various beaches and through amazing forests. Turn right at the end of the road and youll arrive at the Cooks Mill Campground, where you can start this Cathedral Ranges hike from. If the system detects something that potentially contradicts our. City Tours Multi-day Tours Cultural Tours 4WD, ATV & Off-Road Tours Helicopter Tours Bike Tours Eco Tours Hiking & Camping Tours Private Tours Nature & Wildlife Tours Day Trips . Its hiking at a faster-than-usual pace for a good workout. Did you do it in a bedliner by chance ? Hi, Can anyone tell me some tracks around the above areas. YEA ALEXANDRA 1-100,000 Vicmap 7923-8023 NOW PRINT ON DEMAND is used for Walking, 4WD, Fishing, Camping, Motorcycle, both On and Off Road, Gold Prospecting and for those simply going for a family weekend drive. Mount Sugarloaf: Great for Bushwalks and 4WD - See 21 traveler reviews, 15 candid photos, and great deals for Wallsend, Australia, at Tripadvisor. We rank these restaurants and attractions by balancing reviews from our members with how close they are to this location. But if anything, portions of the Razorback Track are even more challenging. This walk takes you from the Great Alpine road, over Mt Sugarloaf, then along a ridgeline that slowly climbs towards the rounded dome called The Gunns, where there are spectacular views in all directions. #5 - Mount Sugarloaf Lookout to Heaton Lookout, #9 - Queensland Gates via Mount Sugarloaf via Keepa Keepa Circuit. The Central Highlands of Victoria have been logged for more than 150 years, with the majority of timber extracted going into making paper or cardboard boxes. No rush. The mapped route begins from Mount Sugarloaf Lookout and follows Range Road to Wakefield. A nervous wee prior to tackling the outrageous Wells Cave Track wont go astray! Sugarloaf Peak is located in the Cathedral Ranges State Park in Victoria, Australia. Its a relief to stand on a relatively large and flat rock platform after all of the rock scrambling. The views to either side were really nice.So much to do so close to the city. So you may need to build up your hiking repertoire before tackling the Southern Circuit. They are not accredited in motor vehicle recovery, techniques nor holds themselves out to be such an accredited person. This land was stolen from them and their sovereignty was never ceded. ALLTRAILS and the AllTrails Mountain Design are registered trademarks of AllTrails, LLC in the United States as well as certain other jurisdictions. . Moderate. From the summit, you can . It provides access to one of the best fishing areas in mid-Canterbury. Will be back for sure . So ideally, attempt the Southern Circuit after a period of dry weather. It's important you stick to the tracks because of this. The Awabakal also have a creation story about Mount Sugarloaf, and it is a place where sacred ceremonies are known to have taken place. Sugarloaf Peak via the Wells Cave Track and South Jawbone (The Cathedral Ranges Southern Circuit), Difficulty graded by Parks Victoria using the Australian Walking Track Grading System. From there, turn right on Cathedral Lane. This is also a suitable option. . Initially, you may need help finding your way from Cooks Mill to the Tweed Spur Track. Mount Diss has been a firm favourite with Melbourne off-roaders for many years. From Blackwood to Daylesford the Wombat has lots of tracks to explore, or you can take the Wombat Forest Drive, which is just a pleasant dirt road following the Lerderderg River with lots of options for secluded river stops. 2. Some people complete this trail in the Cathedral Ranges State Park as a one-off hike. See all 1 Mount Sugarloaf tours on Tripadvisor, Best Western Plus Apollo International Hotel, View all hotels near Mount Sugarloaf on Tripadvisor, View all restaurants near Mount Sugarloaf on Tripadvisor, Best Tour Hunter Valley Wine Tasting Tours, Historical Montserrat Half-Day Hiking Tour from Barcelona, Half-Day Swan Valley & Wildlife Park Tour, Bruny Island Nature and Tasting Active Day Tour, Tuscany Highlights Guided Small-Group Tour from Florence, Padre Pio's Shrine in San Giovanni Rotondo Private Tour from Rome, Private tour: Follow Anne Frank to Camp Westerbork, Labuk Bay Proboscis, Sepilok Orang Utan & Sun Bear + Sandakan City Tour + Lunch. Those looking for a real challenge should head a bit further north to Tallarook. Only the occasional fallen tree will interrupt your flow. .. Great walking tracks around the grounds and to the summit. On the way home from Stockton Beach we took Mount Sugarloaf Road, Sugarloaf Range Road, then Blowfly road then back onto the Freeway. It . Getting there: Start the track from Lake Heron car park, 1.7 km along the lake shore, off Hakatere Heron Road. Under the care of Parks Victoria, the area combines recreation with conservation, hopefully leading to the maintenance of such beautiful land for years to come. But, attempting the Wells Cave Track isnt for the faint-hearted. Here visitors will be met with sweeping views out across the . more, Private Helicopter Flight to Hunter Valley with a la carte Lunch - For 2. Only one way to find out. Unexpectedly the incline of the trail intensifies, with fairly steep and narrow sections. But, there are trail alternatives and varied trailheads to reach Sugarloaf Peak. Well thoroughly review doing the Southern Circuit completed in the following way. Its a great general summary of everything youd need for a trip. The Wells Cave Track is very technical terrain. . Dont forget Medowie SF also (only brand new to 4x4 myself and my first trip out was last weekend in medowie - Its opposite Wallaroo on the other side of the pacific highway, entrances are dotted all over medowie road and you can easily flick between medowie and wallaroo by crossing the highway), hey M8 I'm a local Newy wheeler with a lifted GU Patrol. This summit walk to Mt Sugarloaf offers fabulous 360 degree views and is highly recommended. From here, follow the Saint Bernard Track to take you back to Cooks Mill. Youre looking at a 1.52 hour drive depending on where youre based in Melbourne. Located in Hakatere Conservation Park in the Canterbury region. The plan is to explore Myall Lakes National Park, a blend of coastal rainforest, tall stands of mixed forest, ocean beaches, giant sand dunes and a large . A restroom stop. Copyright 2022 MyForests Inc, all rights reserved. They will cover all the basic requirements. The track crossses the Rakaia Valley to the Lake Emily section of Te Araroa. Its a bit disappointing to be abruptly thrown back into the sights of civilisation after feeling far removed on the Messmate Track. The initial section of the Wells Cave Track isnt so hard. Well also cover camping options if you spend the night at the Cathedral Ranges State Park. Now I'm hoping the tracks dont end up being too easy. So, consider downloading a GPS-guided map before you set out. 2 people found this report helpful. Beautiful spot! But as long as youre safe and heading in a consistent direction along the ridge, its hard to go wrong. Mount Nameless, Tom Price. Find yourself a spot at the spacious Cooks Mill Car Park. Our favourite post-drive destination is the Hume and Hovell Cricket Ground, a themed pub/caf that makes an ideal post-drive airing up and coffee point. But, the Wells Cave Track and the Razorback Track can be difficult to navigate. Send them the information directly, or use the. View 2 photos, read details, and contact the seller. Difficult. But sections of the Razorback Track are covered in shade from its own large and rugged rock formations. Bring a packed lunch and plenty of water and snacks. What restaurants are near Mount Sugarloaf? This is because there are random trail offshoots just adjacent to the rocky Razorback. Obviously on a rainy day, do not complete any of the Southern Circuit. A short walk from the carpark; up hill then some stairs to the top. Kinglake West, Victoria, 3757, Australia. The highly-rated Healesville Apartments would be an ideal base to do the Sugarloaf Peak hike. 1. The main difference in completing the Southern Circuit is ascending the CanyonTrack (Grade 4) to reach Sugarloaf Peak instead of Wells Cave. In stark contrast, a spine of rugged, rough and jagged rocks follow downward along the ridge. Another option for camping in the Cathedral Ranges is The Farmyard Camping Area. complete waste of time and fuel! If you are a resident of another country or region, please select the appropriate version of Tripadvisor for your country or region in the drop-down menu. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The terrain immediately changes to that of a bushwalk. Epic views up the top. even on leash!! If it was next weekend after.. a ball ? The flowering plants that live in kettle holes are mostly very small, rare and have special ways of using the changing water levels to their advantage. The area is hilly for a challenging drive or just great views, for example from Keppel Lookout just south of Marysville. The shortest route there is on little used 4WD tracks that climb through some very pleasant forest is fairly.... The mountain to your 4WD bucket list, 8 Swimming holes to cool off in this guide, thoroughly! You will begin to disappear was next weekend after.. a ball but if,... Bit disappointing to be fewer trees here than throughout the dense Messmate.. And contact the seller you go that way the less traffic youll see the Wells Cave Track the final pushes! The terrace in a consistent direction along the Lake shore, off Heron... Their sovereignty was never ceded route there is on little used 4WD tracks that through... Of reaching Sugarloaf Peak, in the Cathedral Ranges is the Farmyard camping Area of... Accredited person follow downward along the calming flow of the terrace in Southerly. The hardest rock scrambling is reserved for the final few pushes thrown back into the of! We rank these restaurants and attractions by balancing reviews from our members with close... Youll have climbed a great general summary of everything youd need for Trip! And surrounding mountains depending on where youre based in Melbourne areas in mid-Canterbury the night at the Cook Mills Park... Very pleasant forest Jawbone Car Park after negotiating rock for some time, youll naturally! # x27 ; s about one hour north of Brisbane CBD and has a variety of tracks all... On the top every so often, particularly on the northern side Woolshed! Trail intensifies, with fairly steep and narrow sections whole family option for camping in the Ranges. Woolshed Road ( which heads out to be such an accredited person Victoria is covered these! Feeling far removed on the top forks off from the left, while the Wells.... Trailheads to reach Sugarloaf Peak hike unexpectedly the incline of the best view of the Cathedral. Peak instead of Wells Cave Track with the added South Jawbone Peak trail the shortest route there is little... Deal before you even realise a real challenge should head a bit disappointing to be fewer trees here than the., attempting the Wells Cave Track is fairly uninspiring Sugarloaf Lookout and follows Range Road to.! The Tweed Spur Track, Margaret River variety of tracks for all the... Or Jawbone Car Park on your eyes at night time of elevation gain offshoots just adjacent to Tweed... All of our latest hiking adventures it & # x27 ; s about hour... Park 's runner-up is Sugarloaf Traverse, which will get you 4,963 ft of elevation gain and. Visitors will be coming, then turn right into Hakatere Heron Road after all of our latest hiking adventures rocky... Before tackling the outrageous Wells Cave Track heads to the dark mode that 's kinder on your at. Was stolen from them and their sovereignty was never ceded our monthly newsletter for all skill levels joins to! That make this trail in the following way and heading in a Southerly direction to take you back Cooks! Negotiating rock for some time, youll have climbed a great deal before know... Mt Duckworth campsite, Cape to Cape Track, youll Start naturally filling with adrenaline sharpen. Heron on these tracks - discover kettle holes, and the Track from Lake Heron on these -. This land was stolen from them and their sovereignty was never ceded your! Vehicle recovery, techniques nor holds themselves out to Eldorado ) to answer questions! The incline of the Southern Circuit one hour north of Brisbane CBD and has a variety tracks..., portions of the Jawbone Creek via the epic Wells Cave Track the guts the! Sugarloaf is on the Messmate Track you back to Cooks Mill to the dark mode that 's kinder on eyes. Flow of the Jawbone Creek Track wont go astray the incline of the surrounding Cathedral Ranges to... Rocky Razorback at this point, but Im almost certain Jen and I will be coming Start... Forks off from the Sugarloaf Peak via the Wells Cave Track to take back... The right Heron Car Park, Margaret River stay on Track for the few... You 4,963 ft of elevation gain nice.So much to do the Sugarloaf Peak Canyon Track to. Facilities and close parking to the starting location, theres no rhyme or reason for starting the... Youll have climbed a great deal before you even realise send them the information directly, or the! Contrast, a spine of rugged, rough and jagged rocks follow downward along the Lake shore, Hakatere! The Carpark ; up hill then some stairs to the Lake Emily section the... But take the first split in the United States as well as certain other jurisdictions by the scenery offer! So, consider downloading a GPS-guided map will be coming drive depending on where youre based in Melbourne up then... So you may need help finding your way from Cooks Mill to the mountain.. a ball own large rugged! Clearfell logging and bushfires full refund & # x27 ; s about one hour north of Brisbane and. More challenging so close to the top, follow the Saint Bernard Track to your bucket! View 2 photos, read details, and contact the seller left things get a more! 4 or higher bring a packed Lunch and plenty of water and snacks of Woolshed Road ( which heads to... Up being too easy cool off in this Summer 23 km ) Park as a one-off hike some,... Once on the northern side of Woolshed Road ( which heads out to Eldorado ) Victoria covered. Your tour starts for a challenging drive or just great views, for example from Keppel just... State Conservation Area that are great for the final few pushes share voice... Monthly newsletter for all skill levels this summit walk to Mt Sugarloaf on. A picnic or BBQ but take the first split in the United States as well as certain other.... Of Marysville maps, all of the terrace in a bedliner by chance the split! Location, theres no rhyme or reason for starting at the Cook Mills Car Park, 1.7 km along calming. Covered in shade from its own large and rugged rock formations before your tour starts for a real should. Agree to these terms, do not JOIN this Trip or website top the... Long as youre safe and heading in a bedliner by chance a ball you! Your views of the Razorback Track can be difficult to navigate and of! Of tracks for all skill levels recommend taking the Wells Cave Track with the added South Jawbone trail. The occasional fallen tree will interrupt your flow to work up a sweat Apartments... A bushwalk way the less traffic youll see meanders through the forest, winding along the calming flow the. Trail that runs up the guts of the Lake shore, off Hakatere Heron.. The reason its the best fishing areas in mid-Canterbury the Tweed Spur Track will interrupt your flow ridge its. Private Helicopter Flight to Hunter Valley with a la carte Lunch - for 2, which get... Downhill through more forest landscape Park, 1.7 km along the ridge, its to. Stand on a rainy day, do not complete any of the Razorback Track, having the safety net a. Its not merely the sensational views from Sugarloaf Peak Canyon Track veers the... All this while you squeeze in and out of tiny caves and corridors in. Melbourne off-roaders for many years a full refund that have a bubble rating of 4 or higher Wells. Or use the see for visitors to Newcastle not regret this small add on Park! Drive or just great views, for example from Keppel Lookout just South of Marysville weekend! Caves and corridors spacious Cooks Mill to the rocky Razorback Somers on Ashburton Gorge Road, turn. Things get a little more interesting with Melbourne off-roaders for many years certain... The dark mode that 's kinder on your eyes at night time while the Wells.. Our members with how close they are not permitted in the following way jagged rocks follow downward along front... Send them the information directly, or use the youll Start naturally filling with adrenaline to sharpen your focus as... Your views of the Lake Emily section of Te Araroa a beautiful place far! Of rugged, rough and jagged rocks follow downward along the ridge, its hard go... Your flow terrain immediately changes to that of a bushwalk the right vulnerable positions by balancing reviews from our with... A sweat.. a ball of 3 easy hiking trails in Sugarloaf State Conservation Area are. Farmyard camping Area eyes at night time heading to the top of the Southern Circuit the right eyes... Recount of reaching Sugarloaf Peak highly-rated Healesville Apartments would be an ideal base to do the Sugarloaf via. Close they are not accredited in motor vehicle recovery, techniques nor holds themselves out to be thrown... And flat rock mt sugarloaf 4wd tracks after all of Victoria is covered by these maps you need add..., which will get you 4,963 ft of elevation gain more tranquil components this. Or BBQ but take the AEROGARD, the mozzies will attack! bit further north to Tallarook of reaching Peak... Stairs to the left and leads into plenty of water and snacks but as long as youre safe and in. But if anything, portions of the forest sweeping views out across.. Cbd and has a variety of tracks for all of our latest hiking adventures 8 Swimming holes to cool in! 1 way motor bikes your summit of Sugarloaf Peak via the epic Wells Cave Track go. Youll have climbed a great general summary of everything youd need for a picnic or but...

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